Curse

Elithion · Apr 13, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Yes I know NF came out awhile ago, and everyone wants to talk about Hard Mode, GWEN, and GW2 now; however, I will still continue with my post!

To begin, I freaking LOVE Nightfall. It's got amazing landscapes, beautiful character models and armor, the inclusion of insignias, etc. Keep in mind I am still level 12. I just did Mission 2, where you first learn of Varesh and that construct thingy that you had to kill. Now that was a really really fun mission! It had traps, it had puzzles, it had cool cutscenes, etc. It was a really enjoyable mission, the kind that makes me really psyched about the upcoming GWEN dungeons.

However, I feel as if the time between missions is too much. There were times when I was running out of quests, and I was thinking "Man i really want to do something more fun." Well I finally got to mission 2 and that was the kind of fun I needed! But right after that it was...more quests. And another concern of mine is soloing. Yes, I understand that we have Heroes now, and thats cool, but I would like to actually play with other people! Will I be running the ENTIRE game with AI instead of people? I think that its absurd to require a Hero in the group for a mission, for example Melonni was needed for Mission 2. Because that makes it impossible to group! Granted you didn't really NEED to group for Mission two, though I wish that you did.

I wish there was less time between missions. I like doing quests, and I like that there is SOME time between missions. Otherwise it wouldn't be as fun to me. But I feel that theres TOO MUCH time between missions. Is it that way for the rest of the game?

Also I'd like to be able to group with real people when I DO do these missions.

By the way, I did play through Factions, but didn't play Prophecies (yet, I'd like all 3 stories before GWEN)

Zinger314 · Apr 13, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

If you want to play with people, you'll quickly learn that people suck. Trust me.

Puebert · Apr 13, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

If you want to play with people, you'll quickly learn that people suck. Trust me.

Thread winner.

I honestly do not like Nightfall. The only reason I like it is for:

Heroes
New Skills
Inscriptions

NF was too long for me, I liked Factions much more (except for those stupid locked gates!

)

The new professions aren't as good as the Ritualist or Assassin (although the Assassin did suck for a very long time. I suppose that the Derv and Para will get their buff soon), and the whole area looks so boring sand everywhere.

As my said once said, "All areas in NF have sand. Even the RoT, trust me, its black sand." And honestly, thats what I think about every time I go to NF to cap a skill, sand sand sand.

Of course, some of the missions were fun, (The one with the Hunger and the Drought) but once you got into RoT, and saw how hard it was, I have no intention of beating that area any time soon.

With NF, I have created four characters. A Dervish, a Warrior, a Paragon, and a Elementalist.

The only one left is the ele. I honestly can not stand NF, and I will probobly continue to make my characters in Factions.

But I do understand why some people like it

ca_aok · Apr 13, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

I -like- the game, I just don't like the fact that you cannot complete missions out of order. Quite frankly, there are missions that just... aren't... fun. They have them in every game. The difference is, in prophecies you could skip them and go right to skill capping, farming, even UW/FoW with only 4 missions under your belt.

When I make a new character (working on my 10th now), I'd rather not have to grind through 20 missions to do something like DoA. Out of the three characters I've gotten through NF, only one sees general use in the DoA (my monk), whereas my dervish and paragon... not so much. I had fun playing through everything on my dervish the first time, I did all the quests I could find and got protector of elona, but after doing that... do I really want to do it all again? 10 times? It's rediculous.

So to sum up this little rant:
Pros of NF: Insignias
Heros
...

Cons: Overpowered Skills
Forced Linear Gameplay
Added worth to grindable titles (so much for player skill > time spent)
Heros (Although I liked them, they created a horribly antisocial community)
Slow Pace (Not as slow as prophecies, but again, you can choose your speed there)
Generally ruined the AI at release, though consecutive updates made improments.
Inscriptions (Hello plummeting item prices)

**Added two new classes that were again, not versitile. Warriors are still better than dervishes, and paragons have been nerfed into oblivion since ANET won't make shouts have no effect on allied paragons (solves the 6/8man para teams in HA). The same thing happened in factions... neither class was versitile and both were outstripped by the core classes. Assassins have now been reduced to being 90% BOA spikers, and Ritualists see more use as a secondary because spawning power is useless now, rit lords got nerfed, and both channeling and restoration are inferior to their counterparts on other classes (eles and monks).

Onarik Amrak · Apr 13, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

I hate it when people say something is "too long". In all honesty, it's a stupid complaint because being too short is a much bigger problem. I like a long game. It keeps me occupied and gives a sense of value to your purchase. I hate games that you finish in 10 to 15 hours. All it means to me is I've blown my money on a short thrill.

Long games FTW.

Puebert · Apr 13, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak

I hate it when people say something is "too long". In all honesty, it's a stupid complaint because being too short is a much bigger problem. I like a long game. It keeps me occupied and gives a sense of value to your purchase. I hate games that you finish in 10 to 15 hours. All it means to me is I've blown my money on a short thrill.

Long games FTW.

I think the way to fix a short game, is to do what Factions did. Give you options. You go Kurzick or Luxon, or both, and then its almost like playing a new game.

I hate games that you finish in 10-15 weeks. All it means to me is I've blown my money on no thrill.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 13, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

My feelings about it: ANet realizes the shortcomings of having a linear storyline and a chopped up, segregated gameworld. They tried slightly different approaches in each chapter so we have a little variety.

I think grouping with people in Guild Wars is more demanding and intense in a much more frequent way than in other games.

I enjoy quests far more than Missions which I sometimes feel gets in the way of playing the game. That's not a totally logical statement, but I hope you get my drift.

Missions really work best if you have a strong, regular bunch of people to run them with. Missions are generally not PuG friendly.

Missions and instancing are what makes Guild Wars different from the other games where you can dynamically change party members, meet new players, help them out while the action is happening, etc.

VanDamselx · Apr 13, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

I really like Nightfall but it's re-playability is absolutely horrible. I liked how Prophecies let you do what you wanted to do, but with Factions and Nightfall, you have to play with the storyline. Of course I don't mind going through the whole thing the first time through, but then there's just somethings I don't feel like going through again. A lot of Nightfall feels like that to me.

Kha · Apr 13, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

If you want to play with people, you'll quickly learn that people suck. Trust me.

Nah. I PuG all the time. Only a small percent of them actually waste my time. And usually it's the people with your viewpoint that "people suck" that screw teams over the most when they do eventually play with others; they leave when the slightest thing goes bad.

"OMG, he hada small lag spike? NOoB!!!!111" <--- player disappears

Omega X · Apr 13, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

Nah. I PuG all the time. Only a small percent of them actually waste my time.

Wow, I wish that I was that lucky.

/Old man moment

I remember back in the day when it took 15+ tries to get through 1 mission with a PuG.

/end Old man moment

Kha · Apr 13, 2007, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

I remember back in the day when it took 15+ tries to get through 1 mission with a PuG.

Seriously? That's... kind of... sad. The only mission I ever had to do more than three or so times was Arborstone, and that was because of the bug with Danika when Factions was first released (I did that mission 7 times before my group finally found a way around it). Even the bug with the Drought's mission in NF upon the first run was doable (you had to do the bonus of having the Drought with extra damage) without even knowing how powerful the Drought was.

Maybe you just don't know how to notice the good from the bad players in an outpost?

Navaros · Apr 13, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Zinger is right, PUGs are horrendously bad.

I recently went thru the game again to see how PUGs were these days. Here is a Warrior/Derv PUGer build I saw at Thunderhead Keep.

"Great builds" like this are typical of most PUGers.

Omega X · Apr 13, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

Seriously? That's... kind of... sad. The only mission I ever had to do more than three or so times was Arborstone, and that was because of the bug with Danika when Factions was first released (I did that mission 7 times before my group finally found a way around it). Even the bug with the Drought's mission in NF upon the first run was doable (you had to do the bonus of having the Drought with extra damage) without even knowing how powerful the Drought was.

Maybe you just don't know how to notice the good from the bad players in an outpost?

There was no such thing as "noticing" the good from the bad unless you played with them(Or had ESP). There pretty much still isn't a definite method for "good PuG" detection.

Like I said, you were lucky.

Kha · Apr 13, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

There was no such thing as "noticing" the good from the bad unless you played with them(Or had ESP). There pretty much still isn't a definite method for "good PuG" detection.

Like I said, you were lucky.

Maybe I should have put a sarcasm sign before and after that last sentence of mine? I forget it doesn't translate over the internet very well

Grunntar · Apr 13, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elithion

However, I feel as if the time between missions is too much ... I wish there was less time between missions.

Stick to doing Primary Quests, and that will speed the game up considerably. All of the other quests add to the periphery of the story, but they do take a considerable amount of time and attention to complete.

Once you are off the island of Istan, you only have 1 to 4 primary quests between each mission. Later in the game, it's down to 1 per mission...

- Grunntar

Qual · Apr 13, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

If you want to play with people, you'll quickly learn that people suck. Trust me.

I think it's unfair to say that people suck. Most of the time when I pug a group for a mission, there is only one or two guys who suck, and that is in a group of 8. People's heroes on the other hand suck - nu runes, crappy weapons and wrong skillbars...

Edge Martinez · Apr 13, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

The first time through was great, if a little repetitive with all the sand. After that? It's almost a chore to run each and every character through the missions again. I've stopped trying. My Paragon made it through. That's enough. I've got a Ele just in the RoT and a Warrior at Bone Palace. Maybe I'll get motivated enough to finish with them, but I doubt it.

I think the best setup was Prophecies, but I don't know what happened with these last two.

I am gnashing my teeth and trying to build up the will to run all 10 of my characters through GW:EN so I can get them to the hall of monuments. After that, I'm just doing things I like until GW2, which sounds more open than even Proph was.

Grasping Darkness · Apr 13, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

If you want to play with people, you'll quickly learn that people suck. Trust me.

when people say "trust me" 9 out of 10 times they are lying but ya i agree with you zinger

LoKi Foxfire · Apr 13, 2007, 05:36 AM // 05:36

I agree with everyone about the horrible replayability. Prophecies was fun since I didn't have that much experience after beating the storyline and all the quests so I had roll new characters (until I started soloing). Later on, I could just skip the stuff I didn't need anymore so skill capping was overall easier. Sorrow's Furnace really added a lot of fun and nicer items (no greens meant golds were really expensive)

My ranger beat Factions the day it came out (haha, Factions was too short and easy - henched 90% of it) but overall it was also pretty boring. Having to trod through it wasn't that bad but some of the missions are just so boring I can't stand it.... Vizunah, for example, was god awful before Heroes came along.

I have like 2 characters (Ranger, Paragon) through all of NF and now I'm working on beating Gate of Pain with my Ele and getting my Ritualist to RoT for the elites there... god I'll be so glad when I get all my characters to Realm of Torrent. Especially my ele so I can do run E/A Shadow Form nuker.

I have like 3 more characters in the Command Post at the moment. Ugh. It's gonna suck having to play through all the missions again...

cyberjanet · Apr 13, 2007, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

If you want to play with people, you'll quickly learn that people suck. Trust me.

Most of the people who suck haven't made it to people status yet. They mostly still have to grow into people.

If you can find a real people, it can be quite fun. But then I still prefer a max of four people, with four heroes. That's a fun combination.

As for Nightfall, I never really noticed the sand. Not like in Ascalon. Boy, was I glad to leave Ascalon and see some ice! But then, now that I have a new video card, I might actually see the sand when I play again.